The NEXT BIG THING with Keith D. Terry

Harmonies of Change: How Music Shapes Lives with Legendary Bassist Michael Manson

• Keith D. Terry • Season 1 • Episode 35

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🎶 The Power of Music Education with Legendary Bassist Michael Manson 🎶

Music is more than just sound—it’s a catalyst for success, creativity, and leadership. In this episode of The NEXT BIG THING with Keith D. Terry, we sit down with Michael Manson, an acclaimed bassist, composer, and educator, to explore the transformative power of music in shaping personal growth, business acumen, and community impact.

🎸 Inside This Episode:
✅ How music education builds discipline, leadership, and success in any career
✅ Michael’s journey—from childhood piano lessons to performing with legends like George Duke and Al Jarreau
✅ The alarming decline of music programs and how it’s affecting young talent
✅ The mission behind the Musical Arts Institute and how it’s changing lives in underserved communities
✅ The business of music—how artists can navigate today’s digital landscape and take control of their careers

🎧 Whether you're an entrepreneur, creative professional, or someone passionate about the power of education and music, this episode is packed with insights that go beyond the stage.

👉 Listen now on Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Spotify, and YouTube @keithdterry
🔔 Don’t forget to subscribe, share, and drop a review to keep the conversation going!

#MusicEducation #MichaelManson #Leadership #Entrepreneurship #Podcast #MusicBusiness #PersonalDevelopment #TheNextBigThing #KeithDTerry

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Keith D. Terry and JJaed Productions, LLC produced this episode. www.jjaedproductions.com

Please Follow us on our YouTube channel at www.youtube.com/@keithdterry

For podcast guest recommendations, contact kterry@terryperformancegroup.com

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the podcast the Next Big Thing. I'm your host, keith D Terry, a consultant, a coach and a serial entrepreneur. The mission here is to teach, inspire and to motivate. We're going to be talking about music. You know, music is more than just sound. It is a force for change, it's a tool for education, it's a getaway to success. From classical composers to jazz legends, music has shaped societies, broken barriers and transformed lives. Yet access to music education is disappearing across many communities. Studies show that learning music develops discipline check this out leadership and creativity, traits that fuel success in business and life. Michael Manson, welcome to the Next Big Thing. How are you doing, my friend? I'm doing very well, brother. How are you? I'm doing well.

Speaker 2:

It's an honor to be here Well it's good to see you.

Speaker 1:

So let's start off by just telling the folks a little bit about you. You have such a long CV. Tell the folks where do you come from. Have such a long CV? Tell the folks where do you come from.

Speaker 2:

So you are completely correct and my bio is way too long, but I hail from the south side of Chicago, and specifically south suburbs of Chicago and a small little industrial town called Harvey, illinois.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

So that's where it all started, but born in Chicago, but essentially the fire got lit in Harvey.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so what was the real connection? How did it start? Tell us how you ended up a musician. Is there a journey?

Speaker 2:

So there was back in that time it was required in our house that we all the kids take piano. So really, my mother had the foresight to know that music was a fundamental thing that we needed to have and, against my better judgment, I had to take piano. I wanted to play baseball and football, but it was required that we take music. So we take piano and so I was taking piano. But it just so happens, at the piano we went to the piano teacher's house and there was a bass guitar instrument there and I kept begging my mother, you know to, you know, I don't want to play this piano thing, I want to play that thing over in the corner, the, the bass. And uh, she's. So she acquiesces and and she said, okay, if you keep taking piano, I'll get you that, that bass. And uh, that's how the journey started.

Speaker 1:

Now did you take piano lessons?

Speaker 2:

I did. Oh, wow, so you could read Actually my mother-in-law. Interesting fact my mother-in-law, my wife's mother, was my first piano teacher. Oh my yeah. So I started out at the age of nine and had to get it done, okay, so let's navigate from there.

Speaker 1:

So when did you know music was a calling? Because you've been on stage with some of the biggest artists in the world. This is true. This is true.

Speaker 2:

So I knew it was a calling, which is kind of full circle. Why I started this music school? Because back in my younger years, when I started playing the bass, there was a teacher that was encouraging, who became my mentor my first mentor, I should say and he showed a real interest in me and he was the first one to tell me that look, mike, you could do this for a living. You're that talented. And he was the one who got me into summer camp. He was the one who my parents didn't really know much about music, aside from giving me piano lessons. They didn't really know that much about music. So he convinced my parents that music could be an integral part of my life, and so he got me into summer camp, got me into extracurricular activities, got me into all-state band and he lit the fire. He gave in seventh grade. He gave me college brochures and said you can go here, you can go here, you can go here and they will pay for you Now you started out.

Speaker 1:

I thought you started reading your bio. Sounds like you started out in guitar, but you actually started out in piano.

Speaker 2:

Well, I started out on piano but at the same time my mother got my big brother a guitar and got me a bass. Now I wanted to be like my big brother, so I started out with that guitar. I was like, oh, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this. And then I picked up bass and I was playing all these guitar melodies on my bass. So I was playing Jimi Hendrix and Led Zeppelin and all these rock things, because my brother was really into rock and I started playing that on my bass and he was like you really can play this bass. So that's where it took off. Okay, but I'm a product of a school band. That's just real Okay. So the absence of those programs now is my catalyst to try to capture it and get it back, okay.

Speaker 1:

So we're going to get into that, we're going to. We're going to get into that, we're going to have plenty of time to get into that. But I want to meander a little bit here about, I mean, clearly, music is a passion for you, and do you sing? No, I try, okay.

Speaker 2:

I let you know a little. Later I'll tell you about the most embarrassing moment that is. That is still out on YouTube where I am singing Okay, and I can't speak.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so now, as you were navigating your career, you learned how to play. Tell us about your biggest moment that got you to become a major recordings artist. I mean, when did that happen? What's that journey like?

Speaker 2:

So just kind of full circle. When I was back starting playing bass, I used to put on records by Al Jarreau, put on records by George Shute, put on records, and in my little basement in Harvey, illinois, I used to practice and want to be like Stanley Clark, want to be like those guys. And then I had a bunch of musical experiences that went before this. But in 1997 is when I met George, is when I met Kirk Whalum, when I met Al Jarreau, joe Sapo, shah Khan, all these people, and so that's when things kind of went full circle and I was literally on stage with the people I used to dream about Wow.

Speaker 1:

Wow, pretty impressive. And I guess was there a moment when you knew you belong. Because you know, sometimes when it's your first time you're like, oh, you might be a little, you might be a little intimidated. When did the intimidation turn to total confidence?

Speaker 2:

And that intimidation was real, like really real. But I want to say around August 2001, 2000, 2002, really really long post on Facebook about my interactions with George Duke. That's the day that he passed away in 2013.

Speaker 2:

I didn't know that and really recount the time when I knew I had arrived.

Speaker 2:

We had been touring Europe and by that time I had a master's degree in music and studied music, history and that type of thing, right, and I was in Vienna, austria, about to play with Chaka Khan, george Duke and Al Jarreau, and we were about to do the Vienna Opera House oh wow, and I was sitting in the hotel night before the concert. Actually, I was sitting not in the hotel but on the street just having a glass of wine, and then George comes out and joins me and I was like this is surreal, because I'm doing all the stuff that I read about it in my history books. And I mean I'd read about all these things that are happening in Vienna. I had read about Chaka. I are happening in vienna. I had read about shock. I had read, you know, I had all this stuff in my head and I said, okay, I'm actually doing the stuff that I read about, okay, and that was surreal for me and that was like I knew that I had arrived at that point okay.

Speaker 1:

So now let's, let's, let, let's, let's turn. You know, many, many people think that you know, talent is the only thing that makes you successful in the music industry. Um, and we're talking cause we, you know. I want to shift it a little bit to the business. At what point did you pivot or have an understanding? I'm a bad-ass bass player. I can hold my own, but there's a whole nother world to this in terms of making money. Did it come intuitively or was there something that you had to do to learn that side of the business?

Speaker 2:

No, I'm a I am a student of of the hard knocks university. Uh um, it just so happened I got in into the recording aspect of music, aside from doing it with other people. My own projects happened at around 2000 2001, and I was encouraged by George, and I was encouraged by this guy, Brian Culberson love him too and Steve Cole as well. And I was encouraged by George and I was encouraged by this guy, brian Culberson Love him too and Steve Cole as well to do my own record. And so I actually got signed by a record label it was in 2001. And it was a Chicago-based label and I was one of their first artists.

Speaker 2:

And because I was one of their first artists, and because I was one of their first artists, they spent a lot of money on me, marketing and doing a lot of things for me. And CDs were still a thing then, and I sold a lot of CDs, okay, realizing that I didn't make that much money, but my name got out there Gotcha, and that record company actually went bankrupt, okay, and I had to get my master's back. Okay, that was the beginning of the business side of me, gotcha, because I knew I could do nothing monetarily without ownership of my own music.

Speaker 1:

Oh, you know I want to peel the onion back on that, but before I go to the masters, you just said a lot of folks like Brian Culberson and Steve Cole suggest that you do an album. What's the thinking behind that statement? Is it because you create content, create content.

Speaker 2:

Okay, you own your map. I mean, they literally were saying to me hey, man, you have enough talent to do this by yourself. I was really content to just be in the background bass player. I was there.

Speaker 1:

Well, can you make a living being a background musician?

Speaker 2:

You absolutely can, okay, you absolutely can, but to me real wealth and real business comes from ownership of your own music. Okay, real wealth and real business comes from ownership of your own music and being able to market and sell your own music that continues to pay you long after the music has died down. Usually, there's a three month to four month window where your music is really hot and but specifically in the genre that I'm in, you can and I'm still getting royalties from music that I did 25 years ago. Well, that's excellent.

Speaker 1:

Or 23 years ago, and that's where the masters comes in. So, if you don't mind, let's tell us about that. So you created your first album, but you did not own your masters. I did not own them. Was that a business mistake, or is this just?

Speaker 2:

No, it was the entryway. It was what I had to do to get in Gotcha, and so they made money off of me. So I signed to a label and they invested in me and I made them money.

Speaker 1:

Gotcha.

Speaker 2:

They went back bankrupt. I had to go through at least a year or a year and a half litigation legally to get my master's back. Once I did that, that wasn material and leased my masters to a record company. And then, you know, for a couple of years or so and then once the lease was over, then the rights and all the ownership of the masters came back to me. So I would lease them and do another record. Then after two years they come back to me lease, do another record.

Speaker 1:

Is that how it should be, or is that how it is now?

Speaker 2:

I don't know if it should be. No, the model has changed now, so now you do not need a record company period. I'm just a witness of that myself, because I own my own record label Okay good, Absolutely brilliant.

Speaker 2:

So the only thing that a record label does that you can't do for yourself right now, is just market you. So the only thing they're going to do is make sure that the people that they know now their database and their marketing base probably substantially larger than any one person, but they just market. They do the same thing to a larger database, they just market. You can get on YouTube hence your podcast. You can get on Spotify. You can get on all these streaming platforms now and do it yourself, gotcha, and receive all the royalties Gotcha, gotcha.

Speaker 1:

And so your talent took you to the world, and I want to meander now to you coming back to Chicago. Or did you ever leave Chicago?

Speaker 2:

I never left Chicago, but I spent, so I would spend so much time in LA. I was almost thought of as a native Okay, okay, but no, I never.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's interesting why. Why is LA the music hub, or is that?

Speaker 2:

Certainly. Yeah, there's a. Well, I don't know if this is still true now, but certainly, uh, covid LA was just bustling. There were so many opportunities and you almost had to be there, so that you'd be a phone call away from an opportunity, gotcha, gotcha. But it just so happened that there were a number of people who had faith in me to a point where I did not have to be there and I would just get on a flight and travel three and a half hours and be there and take advantage of it.

Speaker 1:

Now, michael, I'm curious. So, as a musically trained bassist, when people call you I've played guitar before, but I'm curious, when people call, are you reading the music from the notes or is it a feel, or what's happening in the session? I'm just curious. Yes, take us all of the above. So some of them are just creative sessions, huh.

Speaker 2:

Correct, no, so that's it. Sessions huh, correct, no, so that's it. I mean and there's still an argument out there now but there are some very, very uber talented musicians out there who don't know how to read traditional music at all and make a really good living. But I could safely say for my journey, every great opportunity that I've had, it's because I was trained and I know how to read traditional music. Wow, and that's a great opportunity.

Speaker 1:

So this is, I hope, an interesting question for you. Would you advise your young students gifted? Because I had a son who could hear and play it? Piano resisted reading. Is it better to learn how to read music very well or not?

Speaker 2:

You should have both talents.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

You should have the discipline enough to learn the language of the written and then learn the language of the audio. Okay, the caveat is that if you're only doing just by ear, or by rope, as it were, then there is a ceiling. There is only so far you can go, specifically those recorded sessions that you were aptly talking about. When you get into the studio. Time is money and they don't have time for you to sit there and learn how learn the songs. You have to. You have to go in there and read it and be done. They're not waiting on you.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

You know, musicians come into the studio, don't know how to, don't know how to read it, and say, hey, can you play it one time?

Speaker 1:

nobody has time for that, because time is money got you got you well, so then do they send you the music beforehand so you can practice or no?

Speaker 2:

yes, wow, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't okay, sometimes they're making changes in the music five minutes before you get there.

Speaker 2:

You know what I mean. So again, there's arguments back and forth. You know, seemingly now everybody has a studio but you could send them files and people could work on them and they don't necessarily have to. But if somebody the business side of that if somebody sends me files, okay, and I charge by the hour, I'm going to charge them for learning this song. If you send me files or a song, I should say and you've got the written music, you knock it out in 10-15 minutes and I don't charge you anymore, gotcha.

Speaker 1:

But if you send me a song, say, hey, figure this out and send me files, yeah, I'm gonna charge you for, know, and that's so, cause I want to transition a little bit to still staying on the business side before we get into talking about the kids at the musical art Institute is as you were learning the business, what can you? How can you describe the differences between when you were younger than than what's happening now? Cause things are very different now with AI, with Spotify, apple, I mean, how has the music business side changed?

Speaker 2:

I see it this way and I don't see myself as any less talented or any more talented than anybody else. I'm just different. I'm just me right. That said, I've made the business decision to invest in myself and then receive the return on investment. I want to say that most people there are tons of talented musicians who lack the impetus, the self-awareness of where you are and to invest in themselves and then market yourselves on the business side to get a return on investment. Most not most, but a lot of musicians are looking to get shows by some artists, to get a paycheck, get a good paycheck, that type of thing. But from an entrepreneurial side, just like any other entrepreneurial, you have to invest and you have to invest wisely.

Speaker 1:

And what do you mean? So peel back the onion on that. When you say invest, you mean I don't think you're talking just equipment.

Speaker 2:

No, not at all. What do you mean, in fact? What is the thing that sells in music? The thing that sells in music is songs, and yourself right. So I write songs. I'm actually working on a new project right now. I'm investing a lot of money in people recording songs or recording tracks on my songs. I'm going to finish the song this week and I'm going to put it out there in the marketplace. I'm going to get it on radio everywhere. I'm going to put it on every place where music is sold. I'm going to put it on every place where music is streamed and two quarters from now, I will start to receive residual royalties. Oh is it.

Speaker 1:

You mathematically have it down to a science, don't you?

Speaker 2:

It's true. Two quarters, two quarters In two quarters. I will start to see so I keep track of all my expenses, so that I always pay attention to my, and I'm always looking for 28% to 34% profit margin, okay, of whatever I spent.

Speaker 1:

Okay, okay.

Speaker 2:

Well, in the stock market that's a pretty good return.

Speaker 1:

That's a pretty good return. Especially, you can keep that going in perpetuity too.

Speaker 2:

Wow, and if the song is good enough, like some of my songs have been, they'll keep coming. Those royalties will keep coming over years and sometimes decades.

Speaker 1:

So let's talk domestically versus international. Is there a different way to operate once you leave the shores of the United States, or is this return a global return?

Speaker 2:

It's a global return and they are separate. But this return a global return. It's a global return and they are separate, but it's a global return. I've tapped into the international market some, but not nearly as much as I want to, but most of my returns come in from domestic. Okay.

Speaker 1:

Now, with the emergence of AI and some of the other things, of AI and some of the other things, what do you think is what's going to be the impact on the industry and what's going to be the impact on the business?

Speaker 2:

I think, to be determined on the industry, and here's why we just don't know how far AI is going to take over, as it were, and to what extent it will be allowed to take over, as it were, and to what extent it will be allowed to take over. I happen to be a purist in saying that there will always be a human element that can be undeniable, I think the music that I write. I want to say, I don't know if it's true or not, but I want to say that the music I write from the heart reaches the heart of a human. See, I see, and my definition of art is that the music that I write and the art that I create enhances the quality of life of those who listen, and so I want to say that that can't be replaced.

Speaker 1:

Is there a genre that you like best?

Speaker 2:

I don't know if I can say that either. I know from a business model. My genre is contemporary jazz. Whether it's turntable, smoke jazz, I don't know if I agree with you. That's my favorite, you know. But I like contemporary jazz. But I studied classical music. My degrees are in classical music.

Speaker 1:

Are they Really Okay?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, my master's degree from Northwestern is in classical orchestra conducting. Wow, okay, I have a great love for classical music and of course I'm a lover of gospel music as well, but so I don't know if I can say I have a favorite.

Speaker 1:

I don't think I have one music as well, but so I don't know if I can say I have a favorite. I don't think I have one. So you know, I want to get into the kids now. But I have one question beforehand, and it's so when you hear the new music happening by the new kids coming out now, any thoughts on what you are hearing? Do you like it, do you not? For the?

Speaker 2:

most part. I like it because I believe kids are expressing themselves in the environment that they are in. They're expressing themselves as they see themselves at this moment and I think every artist should be allowed to do that. My trepidation is that, because of some of the lack of fundamental music training, some of it is pretty elementary, shall we say, and some of it can be quite vulgar and some of you know, according to our social standards. But they still should be allowed to express themselves as part of their environment, where they are in their artistic journey in life. And that's everybody. I know I don't write music, I know I don't play music like I did when I was 20 years old, 30 years old I'm older. Now I express myself differently. I see, I see, I see where you are in your journey, in your life's journey, and this is, you know, kind of a snapshot Every song is a snapshot of where the artist is at that time.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and so how did you get from London to Chicago? How did you get from London to the Musical Arts Institute? How did that gem of a place start?

Speaker 2:

Well, I was portraying record deals one time and uh, I, I, uh, uh. I had just started the recording journey and I think I was between my first record or the second record, or maybe it was one of the time when I was litigating, um, getting my master's back. But I taught taught for a CPS school, chicago Public School, for a year, basically After I received my master's degree back in the early 80s, before I started touring and stuff like that. I taught in north suburban schools very fluid, mostly Caucasian demographic, and then that year I had taught in Chicago Public Schools and the demographic was mostly African-American, limited resources, but there was this idea, or the light bulb moment that happened is that our kids, even through the lack of resources, are no less talented than any of these affluent kids. What's missing? Resources, mentorship, exploitation and motivation.

Speaker 1:

Well said, and I get you Okay.

Speaker 2:

So that was the impotence beyond starting school. That was like we've got to do this and we've got to do this, and we've got to do it in the targeted demographic neighborhood that we have in it right now so that we can bring those north suburban resources to the south side of Chicago.

Speaker 1:

Because you know, I wonder, does CPS, have they completely eliminated music?

Speaker 2:

No, they haven't. That's a? And what happened when I was there, because I was a music teacher, right. So oddly enough I was part of their resources, right. But there were a number of kids I mean, we were exposing music to everybody but there were a number of kids who expressed immense talent but because of the social fabric of the school and the school system, that they had no way to express it without serious social consequences. So the idea was to have a place that those, you know, those talents, those immense talents, could have a chance to be expressed without the social mores that accompany it, in CPS schools, gotcha. So that was the beginning. That said, those resources, like I said, chicago Public Schools has not totally gotten away from arts education, but it is certainly very, very limited.

Speaker 1:

Very limited.

Speaker 2:

That's the impotence behind our school and our initiative.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so tell us a little bit about the Musical Art Institute. When did you start?

Speaker 2:

So this is our 14th year in and I'm very, very excited that we run two programs. One is called the Chicago Music Reach Program, in which we go into those CBS schools and the YMCA and Metro Family Services and where there is no music, and we go in there and expose those kids to music. So on average we reach about 2,300 kids a week with music education where there wasn't any. So that's our Chicago Music Reach program. We employ 22 teachers and a staff of six and these teachers, who are basically musicians in the marketplace but they go in and believe in the same mission that we have and they go in and expose our children to music have and they go in and expose our children to music. And then we have our music conservatory program in which we expose about well those kids that come out of the Chicago Music Reach program and need a place to really really express their talent on college prep, pre-professional level. We have about 92 kids that are in our environment.

Speaker 1:

Now, when you say exposed, are you teaching them to read or and are they picking an instrument to play? And between the instruments to play, how do you guide a child on which one to play? That's I'm, I'm, I'm fascinated with that. That walk, I mean. I remember, you know, the analogy for me is when I went out for baseball sorry folks, I just want to deviate for a minute. I didn't know which position to play and luckily I went out done, did a lot of different things that became a pitcher, um and so. But I also play guitar and I love guitar. But when I think back, I would love to learn how to play drums. So a young kid comes in in your REACH program. How do you guys guide?

Speaker 2:

them, all right. So there are a couple of things. We have a general music program which just kind of gives an overview, and then some of the schools and some of the grades have specific instruments that we offer, right. And if the kid wants to learn how to play something else, they can go to tell the teacher. Or they can indicate to the teacher hey, I would like to learn something else. What does our teacher do? Our teacher points them towards our music conservatory program, where they're allowed to come in and try out just about everything, wow, and see what really, really excites them, right. And then there's another part of that too, specifically for some of our young, young kids Once they come to the conservatory, we try to get the parents involved, right. Okay, the biggest teacher and the biggest motivator are not the teachers, it's the parents. It's the parents. What six-year-old kid has a vision for their lives?

Speaker 1:

That's a good point. I mean, you know, I'm sure they have a vision, but it's short-lived, it's short-lived.

Speaker 2:

It's like you know you see what you like and you get excited about it and that could change, you know, by the next piece of candy that's given. You know that, you know those things change and so parents need to have the foresight Right. Say, I see my kid on the piano at page at age 13 in somebody's big church or somebody's concert stage or whatever.

Speaker 1:

So no, even that could change. Well, you know. Here's my next question. You are both a performer and an educator and you know how, how. How do they complement each other as you've navigated the creation of the Musical Arts Institute?

Speaker 2:

How do they collaborate? All right, so I mean from a very superficial level. I get up every morning with the realization I get to share music with both young and old Every day. Okay, that's a huge, huge deal. That said, because and I'm a little squeamish about this my board of directors are trying to get me out of this because I've had so much success, I want our kids to see that somebody who's studying music and it's goals about it you know the traditional way, as it were can have success and make a living at it and have some degree of stardom.

Speaker 1:

And you're a living walking example that they can look towards, absolutely Okay.

Speaker 2:

So I mean, I've got a jazz ensemble that if I didn't have the stature that I do have, I don't know if they would. I mean, I think they would follow me, but they're like dude, I want to go to everything that you're doing. That's the way they feel about it. They want to just follow me around and just glean, and I'm here for it. Let's do it.

Speaker 1:

Well, you know, I'm going to take a minute here to give you a commercial there. I'm going to take a minute here to give you a commercial. There are two things that I've been to that you've done. One I went out to Smooth Jazz out in Lowe's by El Hair and saw you Phenomenal show.

Speaker 1:

I really, really enjoyed myself. And then I also went to the Musical Arts Institute Gala that you guys had last year, where Jeffrey Osborne was there and man, did I have a good time? And you got on stage and it was. I mean, every artist that got up there, every band that got up there, was absolutely phenomenal. The venue itself was superb. I mean to have you speak to folks that might be thinking about music as a, as a. I mean I see it as more than just a play toy, but it has impacted the way I think about life and business and my year stuff. What's the future?

Speaker 2:

Well, I think you you mentioned this before that even you know, uh, even if you don't study music on a full-time basis, you don't want to become a musician, you want to become a doctor or something like that the study of music and the benefits there are so vast. You mentioned Condoleezza Rice and her problem-solving skills. Yes, the study of music enhances your problem-solving skills. Being able to break something down, break a problem down, your discipline skills, time management skills, being able to work as a team collaboratively yeah, all of those things make a difference and whether you wind up on the stage at Carnegie Hall or if you wind up in your basement as you go to your job, those skills transfer All of them. So I encourage all the parents specifically for them to get their kids into music so that they have those skills that they transfer over. I always like to say that one of my favorite Bay students is now going into chemical engineering. He's getting a doctorate in chemical engineering and studying at University of Chicago. Okay, but he plays bass.

Speaker 1:

Excellent.

Speaker 2:

Those skills transferred over.

Speaker 1:

And so, as you look into the future, you're seeing this. You don't know where AI is going to fit. You don't know where AI is going to fit Any other comments you may have about what you see coming down the pipe, because you're not done with performing.

Speaker 2:

You got a whole lot more.

Speaker 2:

There's a whole lot more. I think AI will make some of the menial tasks a lot easier. I don't know if it'll ever take over. I mean and that said, or that can be said about anything like even acting, or, you know, just about anything specifically in arts Will we ever go to a theater and see holograms performing as opposed to actors? We don't know. But my point is that, even with all that change happening, I still think there will be space for humans doing music. And the business model has changed and you know, there are still major labels that make money off of young artists who just want to get famous, as it were, but by and large, people are wising up and becoming their own company and making their own money. I just saw, I just saw a duo on YouTube. They've got thousands of followers and they don't have a record deal, but yet they go on the YouTube and make these videos and they've got thousands of followers, thousands of views, and they make their money that way. So my point is that it's evolving.

Speaker 1:

It's interesting. A few more questions. You still have a few more minutes. Yeah, sure, okay, so it's interesting. You talked about the business of it. I remember Prince being unhappy because he didn't have his master's and he refused to do a few things. I recently went to a Stevie Wonder concert and I think Stevie was having some issues with some of his earlier work. I could be wrong. Tony Braxton's another one, and so you just mentioned there are artists, there are still music shops or music companies out there, recording companies out there, still music shops or music companies out there, recording companies out there, and these young artists want to be famous. Are you seeing some of the larger stars make mistakes?

Speaker 2:

Oh yes.

Speaker 1:

That they don't own their masters. They're famous, but they don't own their work Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Can you say a little bit?

Speaker 1:

more about that.

Speaker 2:

I think it is always a mistake for anyone to relinquish their intellectual property. You should always have control of your likeness, your recorded master, because that's how you make money.

Speaker 1:

Are there some artists that you can name that are doing that? Now I could, just being curious.

Speaker 2:

But I think about all those people who were involved with American Idol right when they got on right, they had to sign long-term contracts, that anything that they produce, their image, their likeness, all of that was owned by American Idol and they could not make money for years off of their. And that's because, you know, American Idol was investing a lot of money. They wanted to see a return on their investment, right? So if a guy like Ruben Sutter or you know, or people like that, wanted to do other things, you know, A, they had to get permission. B, they probably weren't they had to give up their royalties and pay them first. Wow, they didn't receive any monies at all.

Speaker 2:

Okay, okay, wow, so my point is, is that you know if you're going to do something now. Ruben Studdard is famous because of American Idol and he'd be just another guy who'd sing without them, right? So that's just one example. There's thousands of those actors.

Speaker 1:

You know I can argue differently, right? I mean absolutely. Yes, he's Ruben Studdard, fantasia Clay Aikman, jennifer Hudson, a lot of them. But you had to have the talent to begin with.

Speaker 2:

You had to have the talent to begin with, how many people do we know that have talent, that are working at?

Speaker 1:

McDonald's Great pushback. You know. Great, great, great. Oh, you know that's in the recording studio and on the sports field as well. Absolutely Well, michael, I just want to thank you for this, and I just have one final question, and that is when you think of music, it seems to me that singers get famous quicker than musicians. And my wife and I have a debate when I hear a new song. I don't know, you might think I'm crazy, but when I listen to a song, I'm actually listening to the music and I'm not necessarily listening to the lyrics. She will listen to the lyrics and not listen to the music. And so, you know, when I flip, like you know, a whole lot of songs are out here. People are falling in love with the lyrics. How do you look at that?

Speaker 2:

That is so funny. All right, so we're about to embark upon Valentine's Day, right?

Speaker 1:

Yep.

Speaker 2:

My wife is going to kill me. But there is a gender gap. Women want to hear what you're saying to them, guys don't care so much. So it's the gender thing. Okay, guys can get into contemporary jazz where you don't have a lyric and again, I'm being very stereotypical because it's not black and white but by and large, the guys will get into the music and who's playing and what's going on with the music, and the ladies are like, well, what are they saying? Okay, okay, I'm going to go about this as soon as my wife and children are awake.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you're right. You're right. Well, michael, I just want to thank you for agreeing to join me on my podcast. It's been a delightful conversation. Yes, sir, and I don't know if you have any parting words you want to say to my listeners, but I'll let you have the mic right now.

Speaker 2:

Well, I would say if you're playing music, keep playing your music, because it's so therapeutic and it's so light giving. If you're just enjoying the music, keep enjoying the music, because it enhances your quality of life. We're better humans because of arts and music, so keep listening.

Speaker 1:

Okay. Well, with that, michael, I just want to say thank you very much. Yes, sir, ladies and gentlemen, you've listened to Michael Manson. He's a legendary bassist. Please go and buy his albums that are out there and please follow them and visit them. Their website is the Musical Arts Institute in Chicago, illinois.

Speaker 1:

Michael, great conversation. You shared wisdom that extends far beyond music, whether it's about discipline, business leadership. I just love the whole concept, the whole conversation we had. I have one call to action for my listeners, and that is that you follow me on my YouTube channel at Keith D Terry and please go and check out the Musical Arts Institute. Thanks for listening to the Next Big Thing. I'm your host, keith D Terry. If you've enjoyed this episode and you'd like to support this podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social media or leave a rating and a review. To catch all the latest from me, you can follow me on my YouTube channel at Keith D Terry. If you want to recommend a guest, please email me at info at terryperformancegroupcom. This has been produced by your host and Jade Productions.